So I was talking with a Rebetzin friend tonight and like all people we started talking about sex. Not how my friends and I would speak, but more of how she taught her kids about the mikvah, why they couldn’t date at 15 and about sexual topics in a way that I wish more frum people would do. We got to talking and I mentioned that I personally know of very few people my age (25) who are still virgins. I am talking about guys and girls I will have you know. It just seems that though most of my friends are what someone would call “frum”, they were at one point or still are sexually active. Is this normal? Are me and my friends just a bunch of nutjobs, or within the frum community are most singles sexually active. Let me say further that we are not part of the “modern singles” community of the Upper Westside. These are mostly folks that learn b’chavrusa every day, daven with a minyan and eat 100% kosher. We could call them 612 mitzvahdox as I have coined in a previous post.
While I know this is somewhat common in the frum community especially after folks get engaged, I have a serious problem and this is the-venting portion of the pos- with guys and girls who go out on shidduch dates with the tachlis of getting married while they are not shomer negia. I hink this is misleading and wrong. I think that for someone to be in the condition of shidduch dating they must have sworn off sex and other activities for a good enough portion of time to consider them “rusty” it boggles my mind how folks can mislead contless people who think they are frum and willing to settle down when just a few weeks ago they were shtupping random girls they met at shull, an oneg, or in a bar.
Not Cool people!!
Frum Satire: The Rantings of A Frum Yid With A Warped Perspective 
sbt
-06002007-01-29T22:24:16-06:00312007b-06:00Mon, 29 Jan 2007 22:24:16 -0600 5, 206
I don’t know how many people are avid dater and ‘shtuppers’ as you put it. This is the main reason I don’t ‘shidduch’ date. I’m too busy trying to figure out my life. I don’t think it’s fair to trick some guy, shadchan, whoever. But many people have told me that I should still date. I agree with you. There are bigger issues here….and they will surface. trust me. hiding behind sex, guilt for masturbation, guilt for touching, all that….it doesn’t solve anything. The best way to avoid sex is to not hang out alone AT ALL with someone who is of any remote attraction/opposit sex….don’t put yourself in that situation.
Jewish Boy Toy
-06002007-01-30T00:44:07-06:00312007b-06:00Tue, 30 Jan 2007 00:44:07 -0600 5, 206
I agree with the Lovely Lady.Forget the issues,what about just being fair to the other person?
Would you like to hang out with a girl and get to know her and then discover that her name is Rochel Leah and that she has 5 kids….And an ex-husband in Kollel that she still needs to support…
Same thing,you looking to get it on for life when you still getting in on every Sat night?
Seen it
-06002007-01-30T01:17:04-06:00312007b-06:00Tue, 30 Jan 2007 01:17:04 -0600 5, 206
I have to say, that its a sketchy world out there. Everyone wants their cake and to eat it too. But from what I’ve seen many people are sexually active, and as I found out, I kind of had an identity crisis. Most people are just naive. That’s not to say that a lot of people are actually “moral”, but the point is once you get a boulder rolling, it’s pretty hard to stop, and if you do, it pretty much did a heck of a lot of damage already, and its too late.
notsofrummie
-06002007-01-30T10:47:15-06:00312007b-06:00Tue, 30 Jan 2007 10:47:15 -0600 5, 206
I cant speak for the women, but at this stage in our lives, us guys can get super horny yet still believe in the one above and try and do as much good to make up for the bad.. And if your if your gonna try and avoid woman, tis merely mpossible if your not living in a cave, which obviously makes one even more hornier. So, does that mean they cant shidduch date and find a permenent sex partner and wife, im not sure how they dont coincide with one anbother.
Naive
-06002007-01-30T14:25:21-06:00312007b-06:00Tue, 30 Jan 2007 14:25:21 -0600 5, 206
I am 24 and a virgin and not sexually active at all. I am still learning in Yeshiva. All my friends are also virgins and do not involve themselves with members of the opposite sex. I would like to believe that the majority of the frum(Yeshivish/haredi) world is like this and im going to have dan le Kaf Zchus on most people. I have heard about what your saying and it is very worrying. If i could ask you and all your readers for advice. For someone entering shiduch dating what would you recomend to look for as tell tale signs that the girl is not sincere and is sexually active. I think its important to know and could potentially save somebody from alot of pain and embarresment.
frumbutwithit
-06002007-01-30T17:54:04-06:00312007b-06:00Tue, 30 Jan 2007 17:54:04 -0600 5, 206
You know I am not so expereinced to able to to tell that Naive. I can tell you this- if you are dating seriously, I would ask the person, if they care about you they will be honest. Its also good to make sure they have been tested for STD’s- its much worse for the guy to get tested- they stick this long needle swab into your pecker- not cool.
Apparantly since in the haredi and yeshivish world- they dont tend to get much secular influence- one of the biggest issues is that members who do decide to fool around tend to jump right to sex, since they havent been inundated with all the foreplay scenes that many of us “modern” folk have seen.
I'm a joker,I'm a Smoker...
-06002007-01-30T19:34:51-06:00312007b-06:00Tue, 30 Jan 2007 19:34:51 -0600 5, 206
BTW,Frum…I’m part Syrian and apparently the custom in the ommnuity is to check for that kind of shit…
So my Mesader kiddushin made me and my wife go get a blood test to check for HIV and stuff.I didnt mind as I always wondered if i picked up any nasty shawg while sowing them wild oats
😉
frumbutwithit
-06002007-01-30T19:53:31-06:00312007b-06:00Tue, 30 Jan 2007 19:53:31 -0600 5, 206
Kudos to the Syrian community. I did datea Syrian chick once but due to my non-intrenchment I have never been able to make fun of them yet. Maybe you can enlighten me with the ways they judge.
BeeWhyGirl2
-06002007-03-07T20:20:42-06:00312007b-06:00Wed, 07 Mar 2007 20:20:42 -0600 5, 206
I just stumbled upon your blog an hour ago and have been reading posts non-stop. This one, though, I feel like I can’t leave without a comment.
I’m a BT, but went to a BY HS and still define myself as very much BY except for a few minor things (like socks, skirt length, etc). At gatherings, I would still definitely dress the part.
Anyway, I never knew of a whole category of people like this until a good friend of mine shared a story which I will tell you here.
This girl is also a BT, but became religious much younger, went to the same HS as I did and stayed a lot more innocent. So she was interning at this largely-frum company in Manhattan, when she found herself attracted to this frum married guy (I have no idea which kind according to your label but frum enough for an innocent BY girl). After the initial crush stage (and realizing that he was clearly interested), she adn him started meeting in the copy room for pretty frequent make-out sessions. Now, this girl’s cubicle is right next to his cubicle, so she hears every phone call he’s making to his wife, calling her all these sweet things, asking about her day, etc. She really likes him, knows that she wants to stop, knows that the guy is an SOB but can’t do anything about it. At some point, after several months of this, he calls her at home at about 10:30-11 pm and says that he’s outside her door and needs to talk, can he come in? She heard the urgency in his voice, cared for him and let him in. He was drunk, and after a steamy make out session on her landlady’s couch, he started taking off her clothes. It was then that she realized what was about to happen and how stuck she was. Luckily for her, he was not SOB enough to force it. This whole episode was mostly a nightmare for her: she tried to end it several times throughout, only to come back again and again to the same square 1 because she really liked the guy and also because he really didnt give in easily.
My point is this: sometimes, girls (and I can speak only for girls here) when they have a BY upbringing even with all the college, not-frum family, etc. backgrounds are very innocent how to develop a relationship first and how to react to a guy like this. In this case, his 612 mitvot did not only affect two unmarried ppl, but also his wife and family, and as much as a person can make these decisions by himself/herself and for themselves, to involve other potentially non-consenting adults is more than just “skipping a mitzva.”
frumbutwithit
-06002007-03-07T20:30:57-06:00312007b-06:00Wed, 07 Mar 2007 20:30:57 -0600 5, 206
WOW is all I can say and thank you for a truly captivating story. Thanks for reading and commenting- hopefully this will stir some readers into commenting some more on this probably frequent though unfortunate situation.
zoran007
-06002008-06-19T15:19:44-06:00302008b-06:00Thu, 19 Jun 2008 15:19:44 -0600 5, 206
I am speaking to myself mostly when I say that Hashem will not bless us with the most perfect soul mate until we deserve it. And acting the way I do, I am embarrassed when I pray to Hashem, wondering how despicable I may seem with my dirty actions, thought and speech. May Hashem forgive us.
dan
-06002008-08-17T13:04:54-06:00312008b-06:00Sun, 17 Aug 2008 13:04:54 -0600 5, 206
any one know good shidduch syrian community ?
R' David
-06002012-10-31T00:50:11-06:00312012b-06:00Wed, 31 Oct 2012 00:50:11 -0600 5, 206
Discussing aberrations as though they are the general rule is bigotry. Most frum people are NOT sexually active until they are married, and then only with their partner under permitted circumstances. Furthermore, those who do not adhere to the “rules” are NOT frum, even if they claim to be. This includes those who use some of the filthy language appearing in this forum.