Many Kiddush aficionados will tell you that the best kind of Kiddush is the two-forker Kiddush- which signals the presence of fish dishes along with the regular affair. This essay is to debunk this popular belief which I think is false and will only lead to poor Kiddush experience results.
Fish is great and by all means it is nice to have some smoked salmon staring at me calling for help as I pluck him mercilessly with my little flexible plastic fork as tens of others do the same, often ending up in a twister like capacity when all the meat left on the bones is the squishy white stuff that isn’t skin but isn’t meat. Its great having some fine tasting salmon and dill sauce, the classic frummy salmon dish at a Kiddush, but in all honesty, these fail in comparison to that of the crunchy end piece of greasy potato kugel and everyone’s favorite raw sewage resembling dish known as cholent. Simply put, these two Kiddush delicacies are king and will remain that way until a rather progressive Kiddush sponsor decides that ribs and chicken wings are way better then cholent and kugel.
I firmly believe that the two-forker Kiddush leads to such complexities that most Kiddush addicts are way better off with one fork- merely concentrating on the prize the whole time, rather then being led astray by foods that can be had anytime- like soggy gefilte fish and smoked fish. This is not a bris after all, we are talking about the marketing resource that orthodox have to try and retain their fledgling membership numbers and fend off intermarriage. Conservative and Reform can compete in so many other ways- but the Kiddush aint one of them. Granted their lack of mechitza’s and valet parking tends to draw away some- but the true orthodox fresser types will always stay with the orthodox crowd as long as good kiddushes are being provided at least every shabbos mevarchim.
Imagine trying to balance two plates and ward off the cholent rioters as you try and maneuver through the crowd to reach the holy grail. Wouldn’t one plate be so much more efficient? And allow for the utmost concentration for the task at hand. Have you ever noticed that old ladies in shull trying to get to the cholent pot suddenly have enough strength to throw fully grown men out of their way as they scamper to get the spoon? Its kind of like those women that can lift a car that has trapped their child underneath.
Most people agree that starting at the herring and salad table makes the most sense. Those are the same people that can be seen walking with hunched shoulders, looks of grimace on their faces and tears streaming from their eyes as they walk away empty handed having missed their opportunity at the fresh piping hot pot of cholent- only to be fully content from their soggy broccoli salad and frozen gefilte fish to discover that all that remained of the cholent was a brown residue devoid of potatoes or meat- having been snatched up when the dinner bell rang or shall I say when the Rabbi says Kiddush. I of course take before the Kiddush is made just because I have come to realize in my years of Kiddush attendance that all manners and civility are out the window when free food is at stake.
The two-forker simply leads to too much confusion for the casual Kiddush attendee, for experts of course who have years of Kiddush bombardments under their streimels- these folks can obviously use their expertise to be the first at the cholent pot while handling a plate full of fish and salads in their other hand. If you have kids the whole process is made easier- but for those of us who lack the kids- it is survival of the fittest.
One fork kiddushim allow the Kiddush consumer much more leeway with regards to what they may do. They can obviously just load up the whole plate- of course the oils of the salads and chocolate of the cake mixing in with the cholnet and kugel may not be your thing. Of course this is all matter of fact stuff- there is no halachic prohibition of eating salad and kugel on the same plate- though some of your peers may question your sexual orientation if you hang out at the salad table too much- there really isn’t the same worry as with fish and meat.
Aviva Tamar
-06002007-05-16T14:57:15-06:00312007b-06:00Wed, 16 May 2007 14:57:15 -0600 5, 206
The funniest thing about any “fancy” kiddush is watching the people who look like they’ve never seen food before! And what’s that last little comment about people “questioning your sexual orientation if you sepnd too much time at the salad bar”? You know, a “girl” has to watch her figure!
Shmendrik
-06002007-05-16T15:02:08-06:00312007b-06:00Wed, 16 May 2007 15:02:08 -0600 5, 206
“everyone’s favorite raw sewage resembling dish known as cholent.”
Hey heshy, how’s it going?
ed
-06002007-05-16T15:17:21-06:00312007b-06:00Wed, 16 May 2007 15:17:21 -0600 5, 206
>Hey heshy, hows it going?
Heshy can’t talk now. He got his mouth stuffed with something greasy.
rebelwithacause
-06002007-05-16T15:35:11-06:00312007b-06:00Wed, 16 May 2007 15:35:11 -0600 5, 206
Well if you are going to attend free Kiddushes frequently, this is the tactic: you team up with old ladies and old men and together you do “team work”. The old ladies will snatch the meaty cholent while you bring them the salad. I learned this from the old ladies in my shul. There is this old lady called Rivka in my shul, she is always almost the first one who grabs the tscholent bowl.lol. She takes a full plate, then she takes the meat and the beans from that plate and gives me the kishke part. lol. The old men usually snatch the alcohol and the cakes and bring it to us.
thegirlsh
-06002007-05-16T15:55:15-06:00312007b-06:00Wed, 16 May 2007 15:55:15 -0600 5, 206
Hey, here in the British isles we don’t even get a kiddish, maybe if there is a simcha. Be great full for what u get!
Gr8 blog hersh!
Danny
-06002007-05-16T19:48:04-06:00312007b-06:00Wed, 16 May 2007 19:48:04 -0600 5, 206
It’s all about the cholent! 😉
zev
-06002007-05-16T19:50:04-06:00312007b-06:00Wed, 16 May 2007 19:50:04 -0600 5, 206
I happen to daven at a chassidishe shul and we do kiddush right. During Mussef (chasoras hashatz) every table gets a a package that contains a plastic tablecloth, forks, spoons, scnapps cups, regular cups, plates and napkins.
We allset our table and usually around Ain Kelokainu time the liquer gets dropped by each table followed by herring,(usually just the Rebitzens Matjas Herring but sometimes cream sauce as well, kichle, cake platters , crackers and soda Right after the last Kaddish while the Gabbai is making anouncments everyone starts making kiddush and pigs out on the herring. The Rebbe will make Kiddush after the announcments out loud and then comes the cholent, kugel and Kishke. This is the way to do it. everything brought to the table so you don’t have to fight like pigs at a trough and you don’t have your dilemna of a 1 or 2 fork kiddush.
frumbutwithit
-06002007-05-16T20:28:08-06:00312007b-06:00Wed, 16 May 2007 20:28:08 -0600 5, 206
Tis the truth- but it does take away the most fun part of the kiddush- elbowing your way through people to get to the real stuff.
The effeicency is something other shulls can learn from and I wish it were so- but most shulls don’t have the manpower to get everything so straight.
Also many shulls dont want to have sit down kiddushes.
ari kinsberg
-06002007-05-16T21:39:38-06:00312007b-06:00Wed, 16 May 2007 21:39:38 -0600 5, 206
hesh,
i don’t know if you check comments on old posts, so i will coment here. you wrote that you’ve biked in every state except for hawaii. get to hawaii, especially kuai. went for my honeymoon. fantastic place (though i can’t testify about biking there).
drove to alaska? in college we used to talk about doing it one summer. but just talk. finally got there with my wife. but we flew. another fantastic place.
you’re a moshava kid? will you be there next week for shavu’ot?
p.s. normally i don’t comment on bloggers’ grammar and spelling. but since you brought it up yourself on my blog (i think that was you) and i don’t want to feel left out among all the anal commentors on your blog . . .
“it’s” is the contraction of “it is”
“its” is a possessive pronoun that modifies a noun
ari kinsberg
-06002007-05-16T21:39:53-06:00312007b-06:00Wed, 16 May 2007 21:39:53 -0600 5, 206
p.s. love the blog
Anonymous
-06002007-05-17T03:58:55-06:00312007b-06:00Thu, 17 May 2007 03:58:55 -0600 5, 206
Excuse me Ari, you corrected frumbutwithit’s grammatical mistakes but you start every sentence with a small letter however if you are constructing a sentence it should start with a capital letter so it’s not “i don’t know”, but it is “I don’t know” for example. If you want to be 100% grammatically correct, you can’t construct sentences like “but we flew”, the correct way of constructing a full sentence would be “Finally got there with my wife, but we flew.” Same with “another fantastic place” and with many other sentences in your post. If you are addressing a question to someone else it should be “Are you a moshava kid” and not “You’re a moshava kid?” Well I can go and on, but the point is you also make many mistakes as far as grammar is concerned so maybe you should look into your own mistakes first before you correct other people’s mistakes? All the best.
ari kinsberg
-06002007-05-17T06:30:25-06:00312007b-06:00Thu, 17 May 2007 06:30:25 -0600 5, 206
ANON:
first of all, take it down a notch. i was just joking around and making a reference to a comment he left on my own blog: http://agmk.blogspot.com/2007/05/jib-awards-and-little-children_15.html#links
(actually, i thought i was pretty complimentary to him there.)
secondly, can you appreciate the difference between formal and grammatically proper writing on the one hand and off-the-cuff commenting on the other? on my own blog i am more careful about how i write, but in a comment i just want to get my thought out and move on. maybe you don’t have a life, but i do. i don’t want to waste my time polishing comments. also, i don’t capitalize in comments because i have weak pinkies and it takes too long for me to make a concerted effort hit the shift key. so it’s all capitals or all lower-case–take your pick.
finally, the irony of it all is that your own comment is also riddles with improper grammar and some of your corrections of my own “mistakes” are in fact misdirected. (e.g., do you understand the difference between an interrogative question mark and a declaratory one?). i recommend you read something like the chicago manual (great for the bathroom).
kol tuv
HESH:
wow. i wish i had groupies like this.
Anonymous
-06002007-05-17T08:05:26-06:00312007b-06:00Thu, 17 May 2007 08:05:26 -0600 5, 206
Hahaha, those who tell others to get a life actually don’t have one themselves.
Ari, did anyone tell you that you are one aggresive and arrogant SOB? They didn’t? Now you know.
frumbutwithit
-06002007-05-17T08:32:45-06:00312007b-06:00Thu, 17 May 2007 08:32:45 -0600 5, 206
Thank you Ari and Anon for all your compliments and criticisms they are both appreciated. When I had an 86 F250 with 36 inch tires I was also an arrogant SOB- and no one had the balls to say anything- redneck trucks are great when you want to be cool.
And Ari I do check my comments on older posts- all the recent comments will appear on this front page anyways. So by commenting on older posts you allow others to discover them- so by all means comment away.
ari kinsberg
-06002007-05-17T10:20:55-06:00312007b-06:00Thu, 17 May 2007 10:20:55 -0600 5, 206
anon:
“Ari, did anyone tell you that you are one aggresive and arrogant SOB?”
all the time. (and much worse.) i just did not think i was acting in a such a manner here.
“those who tell others to get a life actually don’t have one themselves.”
i’ll be the first to admit that blogging is horrible waste of time.
Rebelwithacause
-06002007-05-17T11:30:25-06:00312007b-06:00Thu, 17 May 2007 11:30:25 -0600 5, 206
These last couple of comments are really funny. lol.
frumbutwithit
-06002007-05-17T12:54:12-06:00312007b-06:00Thu, 17 May 2007 12:54:12 -0600 5, 206
You gotta love the foolishness that goes on with the comments. Ah theres nothing like sitting at a desk all day waiting for someone to respond to your comments. Its all in good fun.
I do wish people would comment about the post. Whats the point in bickering about my spelling. Its getting old already.
Anonymous
-06002007-05-17T13:23:00-06:00312007b-06:00Thu, 17 May 2007 13:23:00 -0600 5, 206
Ari, me love you long time. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=me+love+you+long+time
moshe
-06002007-05-30T02:56:53-06:00312007b-06:00Wed, 30 May 2007 02:56:53 -0600 5, 206
my thing is at the kiddush, raid the kitchen go home early
Joz
-06002007-05-30T13:07:36-06:00312007b-06:00Wed, 30 May 2007 13:07:36 -0600 5, 206
Love the nuance. Kiddushim are so diverse, and no matter what the food is like, no one can seem to get enough of the oily greasy stuff on their plate.
Have you seen the Kiddushim where you can find a bottle of grape juice or wine on the table. You are in fact forced to consume a shot of vodka for what many people would consider breakfast. Well, perhaps not such a bad thing